Has the church...

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Has the church...
Topic Started: Jul 17 2008, 07:55 AM (475 Views)
Jemila	Jul 17 2008, 07:55 AM Post #1
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	...moved away from God's purpose for it, or embraced it more?



Pinkshoe	Jul 18 2008, 05:32 AM Post #2
Best Friend Posts: 188 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	both



Jemila	Jul 18 2008, 06:33 AM Post #3
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	How do you see it, in both instances?



archierieus	Jul 18 2008, 06:50 AM Post #4
Precious New Member Posts: 39 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: Jul 14, 2008	I see movement in both directions. Some are drawing closer to God, are realizing Christ's promise of the Comforter, the Spirit of truth, Who is sent to guide His people "into all truth," and at the same time drawing together as part of the body of Christ. Christ's prayer in Jn. 17 included both--'Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth," and "that they may be one, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me." Others have turned away from the truths of God's Word, yet are experiencing what they believe to be wonderful manifestations of the Spirit of God. This is a counterfeit, and we are told to expect counterfeit revivals and the appearance of great miracles. But it is not founded on the bedrock of God's holy Word, the Bible. Dave



Alabaster	Jul 18 2008, 07:54 AM Post #5
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	The true Church is as always--steady and moving forward, proclaiming the nations for Christ. But there are "churches" which embrace the truth and join the march, and then there are others wich are no more than social clubs proclaiming a cultural Christianity and are nothing more than a blight on the Body of Christ. They are those spoken of in 2 Timothy 3:5... "They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!"



Jemila	Jul 18 2008, 10:38 PM Post #6
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	archierieus Jul 18 2008, 06:50 AM I see movement in both directions. Some are drawing closer to God, are realizing Christ's promise of the Comforter, the Spirit of truth, Who is sent to guide His people "into all truth," and at the same time drawing together as part of the body of Christ. Christ's prayer in Jn. 17 included both--'Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth," and "that they may be one, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me." Others have turned away from the truths of God's Word, yet are experiencing what they believe to be wonderful manifestations of the Spirit of God. This is a counterfeit, and we are told to expect counterfeit revivals and the appearance of great miracles. But it is not founded on the bedrock of God's holy Word, the Bible. Dave this is interesting. What Scripture can you point to that mentions counterfeit revivals? I am curious. I never want to discount God, but some of the stuff that is happening: that's not God.



archierieus	Jul 19 2008, 07:52 AM Post #7
Precious New Member Posts: 39 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: Jul 14, 2008	Yes, I will look those up and post them. Such an important issue! Right now I'm just finishing breakfast and getting ready to go, but will get back to this a bit later. Dave



Jemila	Jul 19 2008, 08:09 AM Post #8
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	I look forward to it.



Alabaster	Jul 19 2008, 09:07 AM Post #9
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	Any movement that we see where Jesus Christ is extolled in every way is of God. Satan doesn't ever point to Christ--he points to man or some other thing. The true test to a true revival is to determine what they do with Jesus. It's simple. There are only 2 places where supernatural power comes from: God and Satan. The power of God only gives glory to Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Satanic power only brings attention to himself, and always takes away from Jesus, and gives it to man, a movement or a situation. The Holy Spirit always harmonizes with the word of God. His sheep know His voice. Those who are Spirit-led know the voice of the Lord, and are not easily led away. John 16:14 He (the Holy Spirit) will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. Just think! We have access to the very throne room of heaven! Satan doesn't! He is jealous of us and wants to trick us and usurp our own God-given authority and steal our blessing! We must not be fooled into thinking that even the movement of God we are seeing today is not of God! God is looking to speak to His children, and He desires to hear from us! This is NOT the time to be running from Him in fear or confusion. We are called to keep an appointment with the King in these last days. Don't miss it! He is looking for humble hearts of His special ones! Revelation 4:1 Then as I looked, I saw a door standing open in heaven, and the same voice I had heard before spoke to me like a trumpet blast. The voice said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” Nahum 1:7 The Lord is good, a strong refuge when trouble comes. He is close to those who trust in him. Edited by Alabaster, Jul 19 2008, 09:32 AM.



Jemila	Jul 19 2008, 06:35 PM Post #10
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	Unfortunately, everything that happens at every revival isn't true. Like, Benny Hinn has been under investigation here, and I will tell you what: I no longer believe that man is even saved after some of the news footage that has been taken of him when he wasn't aware he was being recorded. Not doctored, and if there is any place I would consider to be a "false revival", that would be the place. Do I think God does actually work through those meetings in some peoples lives? Sure! God healed me when I was just watching one of them. But, that man is corrupt, and anyone who does not actually test his actions when he is not in the meetings is foolish to just accept that he is acting completely in accordance with God's Holy Spirit. He is acting in accordance with his own desire for money. Always test the fruit of their actions and behavior when they don't know they are being watched. Always. 2 Corinthians 11:5-15 5 For I reckon that I am not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. 6 But though [I be] rude in speech, yet [am I] not in knowledge; nay, in every way have we made [this] manifest unto you in all things. 7 Or did I commit a sin in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I preached to you the gospel of God for nought? 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages [of them] that I might minister unto you; 9 and when I was present with you and was in want, I was not a burden on any man; for the brethren, when they came from Macedonia, supplied the measure of my want; and in everything I kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and [so] will I keep [myself]. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this glorying in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them that desire an occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light. 15 It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.



Alabaster	Jul 20 2008, 07:49 AM Post #11
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	So, what has he done? Who filmed him? Why?



carinyosa99	Jul 20 2008, 02:28 PM Post #12
Angel of The Lord Posts: 2,168 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jul 12, 2008	Well....Benny Hinn is probably something that needs to be discussed under "Controversial Topics" because he's such a controversial subject. But if I remember right, he was caught on Dateline or 20/20 several years ago. He's also admitted to flat out lying about some of his "miracles" and healings. He's been under investigation for fraud. I do remember that because that's what the news probe was about.



Alabaster	Jul 20 2008, 02:29 PM Post #13
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	Yes, I remember. Nothing came of it.



carinyosa99	Jul 20 2008, 02:56 PM Post #14
Angel of The Lord Posts: 2,168 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jul 12, 2008	I think I'm going to because I have opinions that could get heated if I talk.



Jemila	Jul 20 2008, 03:30 PM Post #15
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	Yeah. I will start a thread in controversial, if someone hasn't already.



Pinkshoe	Jul 21 2008, 06:25 AM Post #16
Best Friend Posts: 188 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	Any body of Christ that isn't counterculture to this world isn't using God's word and Jesus as its true foundation. We are to in not of. when the body of Christ is a subculture..that means we get our values from what is acceptable today in modern society. when we as the church decide that we need to be in full time ministry to prove or disprove a 'church' ..that is wrong. I could point and say this or that about several ministries..but I certianly will not. The Holy Spirit will take care of it all. He is in control of such things..of all things..not me. As far as the several ministries under investigation..watch out folks.. if it happens to them it can happen to you and any group of Christians or any church. Let us make sure to watch and see what happens to those ministries...for those deeply rooted in Jesus Christ will make it thru just fine..be even stronger. (That may not make some ppl happy ) Mean while I could say 8888888 church with the 99999 needs to be investigated. If I were to say that..it would just lump me into those who give christians a bad name = hypocrits. we as Christians are Jesus' ambassadors here on earth. we should be Christ-like. Jesus came for those who needed Him. Sinners like me. Those who's lives were and still are to a point a mess. I needed salvation ...freedom from my sin. We are the only bible that some ppl will ever read. I don't ever want to be a 'holy Pharisee' that Jesus called once a "Son of a viper" ..we have a similar expression used today in secular society..



Living 4 the King	Sep 24 2008, 12:43 PM Post #17
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Sep 20, 2008	Some are embracing God's purpose, some are not. Every Church is different. However, every Church is good. There may be some problems with it, but God said "love my Church", we may want to change it, but we should still love it.



yngmom4	Sep 28 2008, 09:34 PM Post #18
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	That is a good point...we are all part of THE church.



Hawkwing74	Oct 1 2008, 06:44 PM Post #19
Posts: 184 Group: Global Moderators Member #11 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	The church needs to work together more and not be 100000 denominations of arrogant leaders who "know the only true right way" I wish we could agree on a core Theology and have more cross-denominational interaction and projects. Of course the devil is in the details.



Jemila	Oct 2 2008, 11:35 PM Post #20
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	I agree. The leaders are missing it, but that doesn't mean all the members have to be. That's where encouraging one another and praying together with others from other denominations comes in to play. Where 2 or more are gathered... regardless of denomination. We, The Church, The Body of Christ, all need to step up into the role of edifying and encouraging, praying for one another, loving one another, and stop tearing each other down. The critical views, the seeing only negative and being blind to the positive has got to be delivered from us all, the debating differences because each one of us sees everything from a different hue of the light of God's Word: we all come from different backgrounds, we are all in different places in our walks. We only bring disunity to The Body of Christ from within when we do that. God has convicted my own heart of this many times. It is not the way of divisiveness and sarcastic criticism that accomplishes God's purposes in the earth through each and every one of us. How hard that is for me to remember all too often.



yngmom4	Oct 5 2008, 09:19 PM Post #21
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	Hey, we're having church right here, right now!



Jemila	Oct 5 2008, 11:57 PM Post #22
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008



Living 4 the King	Oct 21 2008, 01:08 PM Post #23
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Sep 20, 2008	Hawkwing74 Oct 1 2008, 06:44 PM The church needs to work together more and not be 100000 denominations of arrogant leaders who "know the only true right way" I wish we could agree on a core Theology and have more cross-denominational interaction and projects. Of course the devil is in the details. I agree totally. It is almost as if Baptist is a different religion for C of E, etc. We need to be ONE Church - God's Church. The more separated we get, the less time we spend spreading the Word and serving God, and the more time we spend arguing over details.



Amalthea	Oct 21 2008, 01:23 PM Post #24
The Singing Silver Unicorn Posts: 6,953 Group: Global Moderators Member #6 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	That's kind of why I started going to a non-denominational church...but that has become somewhat of a denomination in itself.



Jemila	Oct 21 2008, 07:52 PM Post #25
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008	I hate arguing over details. It distract and detracts us from God's purpose for us in fellow-shipping with one another, and causes division.



yngmom4	Oct 21 2008, 09:29 PM Post #26
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	I agree...that's why I only argue over spine issues...I'm leaving the rib issues to God!



Jemila	Oct 22 2008, 07:36 AM Post #27
Resident Violin Playing Plumber Posts: 5,986 Group: Admins Member #2 Joined: Jul 5, 2008



Living 4 the King	Oct 22 2008, 12:55 PM Post #28
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Sep 20, 2008	Amalthea Oct 21 2008, 01:23 PM That's kind of why I started going to a non-denominational church...but that has become somewhat of a denomination in itself. I go to a Vineyard Church, which is supposed to be non-denominational. I think it is at the moment, but as it grows, it may become a denomination of its own.



yngmom4	Oct 22 2008, 10:56 PM Post #29
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	Vineyard is a denomination of its own over here! Those churches are huge!



Amalthea	Oct 23 2008, 12:56 AM Post #30
The Singing Silver Unicorn Posts: 6,953 Group: Global Moderators Member #6 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	When I do the Dove Singers every year, it never ceases to amaze me how so many different denominations can get together to truly show God's light in a totally united way. We represent anywhere from 50-60 churches in the Southern NH area, but we're all there for a common cause; to bring God's Good News through our theatrical ministry. That's why I love it - and the people involved - so much.



yngmom4	Oct 23 2008, 10:23 AM Post #31
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	I try not to draw lines between denominations...I know there are some big theological differences, and that is why I'm Baptist, but I can be friends with anyone from just about any denomination.



Living 4 the King	Oct 23 2008, 10:27 AM Post #32
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Sep 20, 2008	yngmom4 Oct 22 2008, 10:56 PM Vineyard is a denomination of its own over here! Those churches are huge! I know, it's getting that way in the UK now.



yngmom4	Oct 23 2008, 10:36 AM Post #33
Who's yours? Posts: 9,120 Group: Admins Member #12 Joined: Jul 7, 2008	There's one in Columbus, Ohio, where I used to live, that is just outrageous. It's bigger than a lot of college campuses. I never went there, but one of my sister's friends did, so my sister went there a few times. I just don't care for large churches like that.



Living 4 the King	Oct 23 2008, 10:48 AM Post #34
Becoming Family Posts: 451 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Sep 20, 2008	yngmom4 Oct 23 2008, 10:36 AM I just don't care for large churches like that. Why not?



Amalthea	Oct 23 2008, 01:49 PM Post #35
The Singing Silver Unicorn Posts: 6,953 Group: Global Moderators Member #6 Joined: Jul 6, 2008	I prefer my small church; it really does have the feeling of "family". Everyone knows everyone, new people are recognized and greeted as such (we have a huge reputation around here for being a very friendly and welcoming church), prayers and praises are spread in no time at all... ...yup; give me a small church where I feel like I'm an actual part of something, as opposed to a huge church where I feel lost in the crowd. All IMO, of course.



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